Discussion:
Maximum Internal Hard drive size for 98se?
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98 Guy
2011-03-10 13:54:47 UTC
Permalink
So, I may as well go big. But can Win98se handle a 250 or 500gb?
How many partitions would I have to make?
I'm happy with my 6 partitions. 7 or 8 would be ok too.
What are my limits?
If the hard drive is going to be directly connected to your
motherboard's IDE port, then the first question is - how old is your
motherboard?

If your motherboard was made in 2001 or 2002, or if your CPU is a
Pentium 2 or Pentium 3, then it's questionable if it can handle a hard
drive larger than 128 gb. If your motherboard was made in 2000 or
earlier, then almost certainly it won't be able to handle anything
larger than 128 gb. It doesn't matter how you partition it.

If your motherboard is based on an AMD cpu - well I don't know which of
them are equivalent to intel P2/P3 vs P4.

If you have a Pentium 4 (or Celeron) then you might be able to handle a
drive larger than 128 gb. If the motherboard was made in or after 2003
then almost certainly it can. If it was made in 2002 - then it's
questionable - but a BIOS upgrade should take care of it.

The determining factor is this: Is your motherboard capable of 48-bit
LBA drive access? There are several websites that focus on LBA-48, and
there are small utility programs you can run that will tell you if your
motherboard is capable of LBA-48.

Once you've determined that your motherboard is LBA-48 capable, then if
you want to run win-2k-sp4 or XP-sp1/2/3 (not XP-sp0) then you can use
any size IDE/PATA drive you want (but you'll probably have problems
finding anything larger than 500 gb IDE drive). For windows 98, the
problem with IDE/PATA drives is the 32-bit protected mode drive
(ESDI_506.PDR). It can't handle anything larger than 128 gb.

There are two possible choices for an alternate (modified) version of
ESDI_506.PDR file. One of them is public domain, which you can read
about here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=78592

And you can download here:

http://www.mdgx.com/files/ME48BLBA.EXE

The other alternative is a version provided by a person (Rlowe) which
you have to pay for (I think maybe $10 or $15). Offhand, I can't find a
direct weblink for him or his software (he offers a number of specially
modified files for win-98 that expand it's capabilities, such as be able
to use up to 4 gb of ram, etc). If you check out the MSFN.org forums
(win-98/me specifically) you'll find him there.

With that said, I personally don't mess around with IDE drives larger
than 80 gb on win-98 systems. Instead, I build win-98 systems using
motherboards that have integrated SATA controllers, or I install SATA
interface cards in PC's that don't have SATA ports.

With SATA, you will be using a driver supplied by the maker of the board
or the SATA controller chip, and these drivers don't have the LBA-48
problem. If you go the route of a SATA controller on a PCI interface
board, you'll have to find an older board, likely based on a SATA-I type
controller (SATA controllers can be of type SATA-I, II, or III and
differ primarily on data transfer speed). You may not be able to find
win-98 drivers for SATA-II/III controllers, but you will almost
certainly find them for SATA-I controllers.

Pretty much all motherboards made in or prior to 2006 (and possibly even
2007) that have integrated SATA controllers will be of type I, so using
them under win-98 is usually not a problem.

My experience with large hard drives running under win-98 is based only
on using SATA drives, and basically I can tell you this: The largest
drive that I've attached to a win-98 system so far is a Western Digital
1.5 TB drive. The largest drive (formatted as a *single* volume) that
I've installed and run windows 98 from was a 500 gb drive.

Technically, windows 98/me itself does not have a limition when it comes
to the size of hard drive or FAT32 volume that it can be installed on or
access. Rlowe believes that vfat.vxd does have a problem in some cases
if a volume is larger than 1 tb (but he offers a paid solution to that).

Some issues I've seen when it comes to owning large INTERNAL hard drives
for use on win-98 systems:

1) how to properly partition and format them as FAT32 volumes:
Solution: Use a program called "free fdisk" to partition them, and use
ordinary win-98 version of format.com to format them (yes, format.com
can format a 1.5 tb drive).

2) The win-98 DOS version of scandisk.exe has no problems analyzing or
fixing these very large volumes - contrary to Microsoft's own
documentation and statements.

3) Windows-based drive tools (like defrag and the GUI version of
scandisk) can operate on volumes that have a maximum of 32 million
clusters (regardless of cluster size). This is assuming you've taken
the win-me versions of scandskw.exe, diskmaint.dll, and defrag.exe and
copied them over to your win-98 system. Given 32kb cluster size, this
equates to a volume size of 1 tb.

So basically, the short answer is this:

You most probably do not have nor will you get a SATA controller for
your PC. So you will limit yourself to an IDE-type drive. So go and
buy a 160 or 250 GB IDE drive, and use fdisk.com (updated version from
Microsoft, with a file date of May 2000) and create what-ever partition
structure you want so long as you don't use more than the first 128 gb
of the drive. Leave the remaining space as unpartitioned.

You can create a single primary partion of 128 gb, or any combination of
primary and secondary partitions such that collectively they don't reach
beyond the first 128 gb of the drive. It can be tricky to figure out if
you've got that 128 gb number exactly correct - so you might want to
limit this to 120 gb.

If you want to be try the modified esdi_506.pdr I linked to above, then
go out and buy a 250 or 500 gb drive and format it any way you want
using the entire drive's space. I personally would not make partitions
or volumes smaller than 64 gb (too many logical drives given a 500 gb
drive).
j***@myplace.com
2011-03-11 00:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by 98 Guy
If you have a Pentium 4 (or Celeron) then you might be able to handle a
drive larger than 128 gb. If the motherboard was made in or after 2003
then almost certainly it can. If it was made in 2002 - then it's
questionable - but a BIOS upgrade should take care of it.
The determining factor is this: Is your motherboard capable of 48-bit
LBA drive access? There are several websites that focus on LBA-48, and
there are small utility programs you can run that will tell you if your
motherboard is capable of LBA-48.
Geeeezzzz This is a lot more complicated than I thought.....

Using two utilities I have, this is what I have. I believe it's a
Pentium 3. It's 1000Mhz. I bought it used, I believe the original MB
was made in 2000. THe bios was upgraded before I got it.

How do I find out if I have LBA-48?

If my limit is 128GB, that's fine. I'll keep the original MASTER
DRIVE (40gb) and install the new drive as a slave (copy all existing
stuff to it). Do they make 128gb drives? I've seen 80gb and 160gb?
What if I bought a 160, would it not work at all, or would I be able
to use it but only access 128gb?

Do you know anywhere to buy these smaller drives at a good price?
(Not ebay, I dont use ebay).

Here is a copy from these files. Please tell me what I really have.

Thanks

Here's the specs.

From: CPU-ID

IBM motherboard - Intel Chipset i810E
Southbridge Intel 82801BA (ICH2)
Intel Celeron 1000mhz - Coppermine - Socket 370 FC-PGA

From: Norton Utilities

< Hardware >
Processor: GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 8 1002 MHz
Stepping 10
Math Support: On Chip
BIOS: IBM 03/17/05
Bus Type: PCI
Ports: 1 Parallel, 2 Serial
Memory: 510 MB (27% Utilized)
Floppy Disks: 1.44 MB
Hard Disks: 37.27 GB, 37.27 GB
Multimedia: Sound
Video: 800x600 in True Color, Intel(R) 82810E
Graphics Controller Ver. 4.0
philo
2011-03-11 01:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@myplace.com
Post by 98 Guy
If you have a Pentium 4 (or Celeron) then you might be able to handle a
drive larger than 128 gb. If the motherboard was made in or after 2003
then almost certainly it can. If it was made in 2002 - then it's
questionable - but a BIOS upgrade should take care of it.
The determining factor is this: Is your motherboard capable of 48-bit
LBA drive access? There are several websites that focus on LBA-48, and
there are small utility programs you can run that will tell you if your
motherboard is capable of LBA-48.
Geeeezzzz This is a lot more complicated than I thought.....
Using two utilities I have, this is what I have. I believe it's a
Pentium 3. It's 1000Mhz. I bought it used, I believe the original MB
was made in 2000. THe bios was upgraded before I got it.
How do I find out if I have LBA-48?
If my limit is 128GB, that's fine. I'll keep the original MASTER
DRIVE (40gb) and install the new drive as a slave (copy all existing
stuff to it). Do they make 128gb drives? I've seen 80gb and 160gb?
What if I bought a 160, would it not work at all, or would I be able
to use it but only access 128gb?
If you have an older bios a larger drive should still work
but may have to be used as a 128gig drive...
there are several work-arounds:

One would be to buy a PCI controller card

an other would be use use drive overlay software


or a trick I've used if the large drive is added to an existing system
that's installed on a smaller drive.

Simply disable that channel in the bios and let windows assign the drive
98 Guy
2011-03-11 02:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@myplace.com
How do I find out if I have LBA-48?
Download this program for intel:

ftp://download.intel.com/support/chipsets/iaa/48lbachk.exe

It's supposed to run only on win-98/me. It seems need a "48-bit LBA"
hard drive attached to the computer in order to test your system to see
if it's 48-bit LBA capable. I presume that by "48-bit hard drive", they
mean any hard drive larger then 128 gb.
Post by j***@myplace.com
If my limit is 128GB, that's fine. I'll keep the original MASTER
DRIVE (40gb) and install the new drive as a slave (copy all
existing stuff to it). Do they make 128gb drives?
There were (and apparently still are) 120 gb drives. An example being
the Western Digital Scorpio Blue 2.5" mobile EIDE drive (WD1200BEVE).
This is sold as a laptop / notebook drive (all 2.5" drives are - but
they can be used in desktop systems as well).
Post by j***@myplace.com
What if I bought a 160, would it not work at all, or
would I be able to use it but only access 128gb?
See below - but the short answer is it will work at least as a 128 gb
drive, and you must partition it only as a 128 gb drive (or any
combination of partitions that don't exceed 128 gb total capacity).
Post by j***@myplace.com
Do you know anywhere to buy these smaller drives at a good
price? (Not ebay, I dont use ebay).
You should expect to pay $50 to $70 USD for drives in the range of 40 to
250 gb (arguably even up to 1 tb depending on the retailer). You will
pay more for IDE vs SATA for the same capacity, or even for half the
capacity when compared to SATA.

There should be small computer-parts retailers in your town/city that
caters to small-scale system builders, hobbyists, etc. They will have
shelves full of foil-wrapped hard drives ready to sell.
Post by j***@myplace.com
IBM motherboard - Intel Chipset i810E
Southbridge Intel 82801BA (ICH2)
Intel 82801AA/AB (ICH/ICH0) Southbridge supports only up to Ultra
ATA/66. Very few IDE controllers before Ultra ATA/100 support 48-bit
LBA in hardware to overcome the IDE limitation of 128/137GB. However,
your Southbridge is supported by the Intel Application Accelerator,
which reportedly can overcome the 128/137GB IDE limitation using a
driver-based solution on supported Intel Southbridges.

I don't know for certain if this will work on your system, but here you
go:

First, install the latest Intel Chipset .INF applicable to your system
(i810/810E): v6.3.0.1007 (1.5MB)

http://downloadmirror.intel.com/df-support/8178/eng/infinst_enu.exe

After restarting, install the final version of the Intel Application
Accelerator: v2.3 - 11/13/2002 (1.93MB)

http://downloadmirror.intel.com/df-support/4857/eng/iaa23_enu.exe

The Intel Application Accelerator has been known to crash systems, so I
recommend that you have some method of backup or recovery. The Intel
Application Accelerator (IAA) is the replacement for the Intel Ultra ATA
Storage Driver. If you are using the Ultra ATA Storage Driver,
remove/uninstall it prior to installing the IAA.

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